Edasich is Making a Website

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Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Edasich on 8th April 2011, 2:55 pm

I'm not sure if this is the right forum section for this announcement. Administrators are free to shift it elsewhere, where the most appropriate.

I have put online some material I have collected during all this time, put in text form plus images (both made by myself both borrowed from other sites with permission) and loaded on the net. Very Happy



The site is named NAMING NEW WORLDS and deals about how to name extrasolar planets. Some time ago NuclearVacuum did something similar in blog form. Since I am not so expert in web design, I'm not sure if you can also post comment on this site for suggestion/criticism. Neutral

I'm aware this topic has very different schools of thought - with the IAU's one most prevalent - but I wished to show my ideas about how naming the extrasolar planets, a topic that intrigues me much. The naming proposals have also been collected in book form, perhaps soon to be published in my country (editorial times are very slooooow here...on Tau Ceti d...*lol* Laughing, but text is protected by copyright).

There are some artistic rendering of extrasolar planets and personal proposals to name extrasolar planets following a homogeneous criterion.
The website is partly complete, but still under construction.

Impressions, suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome. Wink


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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 8th April 2011, 4:09 pm

Just a brief look as I'm low on free time at the moment, but when you discuss circumbinary planets, you mention NN Ser ABb and NN Ser ABc. I would argue these would probably best be written as NN Ser (AB)b and NN Ser (AB)c respectively.

The reason being that if there was a quadruple system system,
Castor A
> Castor AA
> Castor AB
Castor B
> Castor BA
> Castor BB

A planet named "Castor ABb" would seem to imply orbiting Castor AB, as opposed to the entire Castor system.

I don't anticipate such examples will be common, but maybe you see what I'm getting at.

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Lazarus on 8th April 2011, 4:39 pm

Personally my preference would be to designate the objects as c and d.

In the case that we find that a circumbinary planet is in fact a star in a face-on orbit it is then possible to switch the designation to upper-case, still be in line with the star designation system and crucially for the information age retain searchability of the designation (most search-engines are case-insensitive).

But yeah, good luck with the website. Might get round to doing one of my own one of these days...

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Edasich on 9th April 2011, 4:13 am

Sirius_Alpha wrote:Just a brief look as I'm low on free time at the moment, but when you discuss circumbinary planets, you mention NN Ser ABb and NN Ser ABc. I would argue these would probably best be written as NN Ser (AB)b and NN Ser (AB)c respectively.

The reason being that if there was a quadruple system system,
Castor A
> Castor AA
> Castor AB
Castor B
> Castor BA
> Castor BB

A planet named "Castor ABb" would seem to imply orbiting Castor AB, as opposed to the entire Castor system.

I don't anticipate such examples will be common, but maybe you see what I'm getting at.

Just forgot to type parenthesis.

Apart from this, what's your impression about this site? Is there anything I should add/edit? Do you find the argument interesting?

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 9th April 2011, 5:17 am

The centred, bold text looks somewhat juvinile, but that's purely aesthetics.

I'm not terribly convinced that exoplanets need names, but I do think I understand what you're trying to do. It's an interesting goal.

The alphabet includes 26 letters, from A to Z and the four-letters combinations are estimated to exceed thousands of billions. Just doing the math, 426=4.5[sup]15. If we were using ten letters we would have 1026 possible combinations!
Maybe I'm not getting the point, but 426 = ~4.5 1015, whereas 4.515 = ~6 109.


A hypothetical planet orbiting, to say, star SAO 14151 could have a name like Adaea, whereas a planet orbiting HIP 85671 could be named Ifgha. Though apparently easy and comfortable, it may however create weird cacophonic combinations. A putative planet orbiting star HIP 8865 could not be named Hhig, neither a hypothetical HIP 77861 b could not have a name like Gghfa! A possible solution would be the sum of certain numerical sequences: HIP 77861, 7 + ( 7 + 8 ) + 6 + 1 = Gofa.
What you might consider is listing star catalogues into a heirarchy (HD first, HIP second, SAO third) etc, and taking the first available name for the planet. Then take the prime factorisation of the number of the star, and correlate each prime number with a syllable.

For example, HD 149026 b factors to 2 x 269 x 277 + b. If you have syllables to correlate to each of those numbers (e.g. 2 = 'rah', 269 = 'ka', 277 = 'jah', b = 'kay') then HD 149026 b is "rahkajahkay."

Though this obviously sounds awful and can get problematic for planets like HD 209458 b (factors into 2 x 104729).

edit: fixed superscript.


Last edited by Sirius_Alpha on 9th April 2011, 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Edasich on 9th April 2011, 9:07 am

I have studied several options for the text and this one appears the "best-fit", using a common scientifical term. Laughing
Especially accounting the limitations of a GoogleSites free website. As I said "ad maiora", hoping a future better domain.

If I suceed in a editorial operation, I could try to make (or even to commision with personal superivision) a more complex website based on the model of former Extrasolar Visions, with also individual exoplanets page, discovery facts, artwork and so on. A 100 Mb domain implies some limitations

Maybe I'm not getting the point, but 426 = ~4.5 1015, whereas 4.515 = ~6 109.

uh, when pasting the text the 1015 has not been transferred from original text. Thanks for the notify. Wink

What you might consider is listing star catalogues into a heirarchy (HD first, HIP second, SAO third) etc, and taking the first available name for the planet. Then take the prime factorisation of the number of the star, and correlate each prime number with a syllable.

For example, HD 149026 b factors to 2 x 269 x 277 + b. If you have syllables to correlate to each of those numbers (e.g. 2 = 'rah', 269 = 'ka', 277 = 'jah', b = 'kay') then HD 149026 b is "rahkajahkay."

Much agreed. Indeed it's recommended to employ this criterion the least possible. Laughing

Next thread bump will concern the constellation pages I'm going to post. I need some time to translate individual texts into HTML form plus eventual images, reconstructions et cetera.

I'm not terribly convinced that exoplanets need names, but I do think I understand what you're trying to do. It's an interesting goal.

I see, but I would challenge to remember, type and pronounce, to say, USNO-B1.0 0914-00450742 b. Much easier, for example, to call it "Merops", ain't it? Wink

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 9th April 2011, 11:39 am

Edasich wrote:I see, but I would challenge to remember, type and pronounce, to say, USNO-B1.0 0914-00450742 b. Much easier, for example, to call it "Merops", ain't it? Wink
Then why not name the stars while you're at it? USNO-B1.0 0914-00450742 isn't much easier to write. Razz

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Edasich on 9th April 2011, 2:39 pm

Sirius_Alpha wrote:
Edasich wrote:I see, but I would challenge to remember, type and pronounce, to say, USNO-B1.0 0914-00450742 b. Much easier, for example, to call it "Merops", ain't it? Wink
Then why not name the stars while you're at it? USNO-B1.0 0914-00450742 isn't much easier to write. Razz

Heh, it is another thing to account cyclops

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Sedna on 9th April 2011, 3:08 pm

Sirius_Alpha wrote:Then why not name the stars while you're at it? USNO-B1.0 0914-00450742 isn't much easier to write. Razz

I remember that another guy already did it, but I need to do some research to find the link.

Apart from that, this is a good website on an interesting domain. It's somewhat "weird" that there are words like "Mappa del sito" or "Cerca nel sito" among english sentences, but it's just a personal thought. Anyways, Ctrl-D'ed to my computer.

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Edasich on 12th April 2011, 5:55 am

Thread bump:

At webpage https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/exoplanets-name-list some constellation pages have been added. Active links are underlined. So far a dozen of pages have been posted, those left coming soon. cyclops

At page https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/tentative-naming-criteria I have added an appendix at the bottom of the page. It concerns brown dwarf naming and personal proposals. Take a look if you like Rolling Eyes

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Edasich on 15th May 2011, 10:40 am

Thread bump: some constellation pages added. Zodiacal constellations shall have priority in future updates. Underlined constellations are those with active link.

https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/exoplanets-name-list

Most notable sky fields:

ANDROMEDA

https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/exoplanets-name-list/andromeda

SCORPIUS

https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/exoplanets-name-list/scorpius

TAURUS

https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/exoplanets-name-list/taurus

CETUS

https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/exoplanets-name-list/cetus

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Edasich on 24th May 2011, 5:43 am

Updated Draco page with Kepler-10 new entry. How about the names I propose for Kepler-10 planets?

https://sites.google.com/site/namingnewworlds/home/exoplanets-name-list/draco

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Mongo on 25th May 2011, 9:31 am

This is a topic I wrote on, three or four years ago. Below is a portion of one short post I had made at another site in 2008:

It's a shame that no logical exoplanetary nomenclature has been adopted. Instead the system used for multiple stellar systems is being used, which causes confusion (is HDxxxxxxb a planet or a star?) and includes only two pieces of information: primary and order of discovery.

I would have suggested something like the following:

STAR NAME Pxx (YEAR DISCOVERERS)

Where "P" indicates a planetary-mass object and "xx" indicates ten times the base ten logarithm of the orbital period in days.

For example, the current nomenclature for the 55 Cnc A system looks like this (ordered by increasing planetary orbital period):

55 Cnc A e
55 Cnc A b
55 Cnc A c
55 Cnc A f
55 Cnc A d

Whereas the example nomenclature would look like this (also ordered by increasing orbital period):

55 Cnc A P04 (2004 McArthur, Endl, Cochran, Benedict, Fischer, Marcy, Butler, Naef, Mayor, Queloz, Udry, Harrison)
55 Cnc A P12 (1996 Butler, Marcy, Williams, Hauser, Shirts)
55 Cnc A P16 (2002 Marcy, Butler, Fischer, Laughlin, Voght, Henry, Pourbaix)
55 Cnc A P24 (2005 Wisdom)
55 Cnc A P37 (2002 Marcy, Butler, Fischer, Laughlin, Voght, Henry, Pourbaix)

Giving four pieces of information: primary, orbital period, year of discovery and discovery team.

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 25th May 2011, 1:10 pm

Mongo wrote:Whereas the example nomenclature would look like this (also ordered by increasing orbital period):
...
Giving four pieces of information: primary, orbital period, year of discovery and discovery team.


So what do you do when the supposed RV planet's signal is found to be an alias of a true signal at a different period? Remember Gliese 581 d was suspected to be an alias of a planet at a period of ~1 day.

We do not want the names of exoplanets to represent current knowledge about them -- it's too easy to find ourselves having to change it later.

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Re: Edasich is Making a Website

Post by Mongo on 25th May 2011, 10:14 pm

Sirius_Alpha wrote:So what do you do when the supposed RV planet's signal is found to be an alias of a true signal at a different period? Remember Gliese 581 d was suspected to be an alias of a planet at a period of ~1 day.

We do not want the names of exoplanets to represent current knowledge about them -- it's too easy to find ourselves having to change it later.

I would still go ahead and use this system. Aliases of orbital periods do not seem to be that frequent (and go away with increasing coverage), and I would consider the trade-off of an occasional change in a single planet's designation, for a far more informative designation system, to be worthwhile.

If it is considered vital to be able to search for all designations of a given planet, regardless of changes in its presumed orbital period, why not prefix a sequential "order of planetary discovery" to the designation, so that

55 Cnc A P12 (1996 Butler, Marcy, Williams, Hauser, Shirts)

becomes

x9 55 Cnc A P12 (1996 Butler, Marcy, Williams, Hauser, Shirts)

(assuming that it was in fact the 9th extrasolar planet to be announced) so that whatever its orbital period is changed to, it would always be found by searching for "x9 55 Cnc A".

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