Additional Planets at Gliese 581

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Galzi on 24th September 2012, 2:28 pm

Another study found no traces of planets f and g

http://arxiv.org/abs/1208.0814

Using the HARPS dataset, a stable 4 planets solution is found with an eccentric orbit for planet d. Even in this analysis, when taking into account HIRES data, planet d is rejected for insufficient confidence.

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Lazarus on 24th September 2012, 2:34 pm

That paper doesn't seem to reference the Forveille et al. (2011) paper which contains the extended HARPS dataset, instead they are using the older Mayor et al. (2009) dataset.

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by tommi59 on 10th October 2012, 3:36 pm

http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/759/1/2/

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 5th November 2012, 9:19 pm

A search for transits of GJ 581\lowercase{e} and characterization of the host star variability using MOST space telescope photometry
http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.0577

No transits of b, but a photometric signal at about the same period. No detection of e. If it transits, it has a radius less than 1.62 Re (I feel we've discussed this before but I'm not sure where)

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by tommi59 on 6th November 2012, 6:20 pm

GJ 581 e probably has radius around 1.3 earth so no wonder they did not detect transit

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 6th November 2012, 9:12 pm

Another paper on how many planets are there, the same results.

Counting the number of planets around GJ 581. False positive rate of Bayesian signal detection methods
http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.1280

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by tommi59 on 9th November 2012, 7:06 am

A debris disk around the planet-hosting M-star GJ 581 spatially resolved with Herschel

http://www.aanda.org/index.php?option=com_article&access=doi&doi=10.1051/0004-6361/201220325&Itemid=129


Last edited by Sirius_Alpha on 9th November 2012, 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added link for citation)

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Lazarus on 9th November 2012, 6:49 pm

A resolved disc? Sweet... never was particularly comfortable with the uncertainties in the modelling of disc locations from the spectrum of the excess radiation...

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 21st November 2012, 9:28 pm

Now on arXiv.
http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.4898
This disk complements our view of this remarkable system known to host at least four low mass, close-in planets. These planets cannot perturb sufficiently the modeled cold disk to trigger destructive collisions between planetesimals over the age of the star, but a hypothetical outer planet, for example a Neptune mass planet with an orbital radius of 5 AU and a moderate eccentricity, could replenish the system with dust. Alternatively, the self-stirring mechanism could operate for this old star causing sufficient dynamical excitation to produce the observed dust.

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Lazarus on 22nd November 2012, 2:51 pm

So maybe getting a handle of the 3D orientation of the system:

First, we note that our determination of the inclination of the disk relative to the plane of the sky is 30° < i < 70° (face on disk is i = 0°). This is mostly constrained by the 160 μm image and is fairly insensitive to the masks used for the background sources. If the disk mid-plane and the orbits of the planets are coplanar, this range of inclination makes the masses of the planets of GJ 581 no more than ∼ 1.6 times their measured minimum masses by radial velocity and, interestingly, ensures the long-term stability of the orbits in this system as shown in dynamical studies by Beust et al. (2008) and Mayor et al. (2009).
And also hints that there should be outer planets, even if "Gliese 581 f" turned out to be a systematic error rather than a true planet.

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Planets Gliese 581 f and g do not exist

Post by efroimsk on 1st December 2012, 12:26 am

Planets f and g do not exist: arxiv.org/abs/1208.0814

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 1st December 2012, 10:17 am

efroimsk wrote:Planets f and g do not exist: arxiv.org/abs/1208.0814
Indeed, see Galzi's post a couple months ago, and just upthread.

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The paper arxiv.org/abs/1208.0814 about GJ 581 d

Post by efroimsk on 1st December 2012, 12:00 pm

Lazarus wrote:That paper doesn't seem to reference the Forveille et al. (2011) paper which contains the extended HARPS dataset, instead they are using the older Mayor et al. (2009) dataset.

That was an early version. In the published version (see also the recent update in arxiv) we did use the data by Forveille (2011).

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 1st December 2012, 8:43 pm

efroimsk wrote:In the published version (see also the recent update in arxiv) we did use the data by Forveille (2011).
Ah I see. Sorry about that!

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Galzi on 2nd December 2012, 7:08 am

efroimsk wrote:Planets f and g do not exist: arxiv.org/abs/1208.0814

That's true regarding the solution provided by Vogt et al. (2010); on the other hand the study seems to tentatively support the detection of a 32.1 day planet proposed by Vogt et al. (2012), assuming zero eccentricities for all the planets:

In their most recent update on the GJ 581 system, Vogt et al. (2012) used the yet unpublished, much expanded set of RV data from the HARPS (Forveille et al. 2011). They found that a fifth planet (f) can be detected if the eccentricity of the 66.7 day planet (d) is set to zero. Using the same data set, but not rejecting any data points in it, we were able to confirm this statement with our detection algorithm by forcing the eccentricity of the four planets b–e to zero. A 32.1 day planet with a projected mass of 1.99ME emerges at a confidence level above 99%. It is likely therefore that we are dealing with the second harmonic in the signal of an eccentric planet, which can be confused with a separate nearly commensurate planet.

The eccentricity issue needs to be solved. Maybe HARPS, with the latest improvements, has the potential to do that.

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by tommi59 on 2nd December 2012, 12:01 pm

Eccentricity over 0.25 for planet d at 0.215 au is in my opinion very unlikely

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Lazarus on 2nd December 2012, 12:43 pm

efroimsk wrote:
Lazarus wrote:That paper doesn't seem to reference the Forveille et al. (2011) paper which contains the extended HARPS dataset, instead they are using the older Mayor et al. (2009) dataset.

That was an early version. In the published version (see also the recent update in arxiv) we did use the data by Forveille (2011).
Thanks for the information!

Seems the case for planets f and g is getting progressively weaker. Seems to me that the claimed period for g is close to several plausible "artifact" periods...

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Edasich on 3rd December 2012, 8:52 am

Robertson et al. (2012) say that periodicity of planet f is actually correlated to stellar cycle rather to an orbital period.

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 4th July 2013, 8:20 pm

Another failure to detect the f and g planets.
http://arxiv.org/abs/1307.1246

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by tommi59 on 5th July 2013, 7:56 am

Well no surprise.I expect like in case gliese 436 sub earth size planet is causing non zero eccentricity for 436 b, sub earth mass planet can cause the same for. 581d.There could be couple (sub)earth mass planets in gj 581 under threshold detection that is why we can not find any reliable signals beside b,c,d,e

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 3rd July 2014, 5:13 pm

There they go...

Stellar activity masquerading as planets in the habitable zone of the M dwarf Gliese 581
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/07/02/science.1253253

The M dwarf Gliese 581 is believed to host four planets, including one (GJ 581d) near the habitable zone that could possibly support liquid water on its surface if it is a rocky planet. The detection of another habitable-zone planet—GJ 581 g—is disputed, as its significance depends on the eccentricity assumed for d. Analyzing stellar activity using the Hα line, we measure a stellar rotation period of 130 ± 2 days and a correlation for Hα modulation with radial velocity. Correcting for activity greatly diminishes the signal of GJ 581d (to 1.5σ) while significantly boosting the signals of the other known super-Earth planets. GJ 581d does not exist, but is an artifact of stellar activity which, when incompletely corrected, causes the false detection of planet g.

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Lazarus on 3rd July 2014, 5:57 pm

OUCH Sad

on the other hand, I guess that frees up the HZ for lower-mass terrestrial planets... surely there's got to be something in the gap between c and the debris disc?

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Stalker on 3rd July 2014, 6:15 pm

Additional Planets at Gliese 581 lol Very Happy 

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Led_Zep on 3rd July 2014, 6:21 pm

Good news : planets e, b & c are real !!  cheers  

http://www.space.com/26432-potentially-habitable-exoplanets-gliese-581-existence.html

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

Post by Lazarus on 5th July 2014, 3:25 am

Other good news: we don't have to worry about being obliterated in 2049 by the relativistic missile response to the Bebo spamfest beamed towards the system.

Or Battleship-playing aliens from Gliese 581g for that matter.

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Re: Additional Planets at Gliese 581

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