Dystopia Universe - A Collab

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Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 12th November 2009, 7:08 am

Premiss: I'm not sure if this topic may match with subforum theme. I hope so because it is about world-building, though in alternative universe, but using same notable stars we know.

All the things I'm going to write here refer to a storyline a deviantArtist (nick)named "Gorgonbreath" is writing and drawing. She is developing a science fiction taking place on a post-apocalyptic Earth, dwelled by drawing swanky, coloured and eerie original characters, mostly new species (or even genera) of Homo sapiens.
We are currently working together on a speculative project involving the fiction of her.

She writes stories and situations and draws characters too.

I'm building up a scientific fictional background. And sometimes I do fan service at my website

Pratically I offer scientific consultation *lol*

Anyway her gallery is viewable here:

http://gorgonbreath.deviantart.com

Dystopia is the name of the fiction.

It takes place on an alternative Earth (to who knows Turtledove's novels has already got what I mean) and alternative Solar System. Apparently nothing differs from our Universe, even life has developed in specular way as in our Universe and so have Mankind and its History.

Everything alike our World

...but here difference is...

In Dystopia Universe star's life lasts half than expected time calculated in our Universe. If a Sun-like star, with 1 solar mass, takes 10 billion years before dying in Our Universe, in Dystopia's one takes only 5. And Sun is just 5 billion years old.
So the lifetime formula:

TMS= 1010[M/MSun][LSun/L]

Has to be divided by two.

So in Dystopia's Universe the Sun is close to death at current time.

And so are other evolved stars in Solar Neighborhood
Especially the brightest ones alike Sirius and Procyon

How does Dystopia Universe appears?

The Sun has nearly exhausted hydrogen and is slowly beginning burning helium in its core. Mankind's technology has allowed to terraform and settle Mars and to emigrate toward younger Solar System analogues too. Indeed Earth's inhabitant have gone elsewhere, alike Epsilon Eridani, Epsilon Indi, Sigma Draconis et cetera, where stellar age is much younger and lively "blue dots" are present and may host newborn colonies.

On the other hand here how other nearby stars would appear (stars are scaled according to distance from Sun):

- Alpha Centauri A-B: star A is slightly older than Sun, thus it's evolving off the Main Sequence alike Sun. Star B is less massive and will live more. But it won't be so lively due to evolving primary and increasing luminosity of its.

- Tau Ceti: much older than Sun (7 billion years) it does appear as a K2III giant, with radius 15 times larger than Sun and nearly 80 times more luminous.

- Sirius: the Dog's Star is already experiencing the second phase of red giant phase, appearing as a bright giant of spectal class K0II (luminosity=700 times that of Sun, 28 times brighter than before). White dwarf companion B is appear much dimmer than before and really hard to resolve.

- Procyon: much more evolved than nearby Sirius, Procyon is passing through first stage of red giant star. Effective temperature significantly lowered (T=3,460 Kelvin from former 6,650) and radius enormously bloated (180 Solar radii) let the star being classified as Mira-type pulsating giant, with S6III spectral type. Luminosity nearly 4,200 higher than Sun. Moreover the star that now interacts with white dwarf companion as symbiotic binary (alike much further away stars R Aquarii, CH Cygni).

- Delta Pavonis: passed through 1st red giant phase, the star is currently a K2III giant, 53 times more luminous than Sun.

- Beta Hydri: 2nd stage Red giant star of Mira-type, with likely spectral type of M7III. Close to post-AGB phase.

- Arcturus: the star lies in advanced phase of stellar death, appearing as briefly luminous post-AGB star, a hot but shrunken subdwarf star (sdB-type star) surrounded by hot gas forming a planetary nebula.

- Altair: the prince star of Aquila constellation (the Eagle) appears as a cold but bright K5/7III giant star. Radius 55 times larger than Sun, 700 times more luminous.

- Vega: it has evolved off the main sequence and appears alike a G5Ib pulsating Cepheid.

- Pollux: it appears as a post-AGB giant with subsequent dim planetary nebula. Degenerate star appears as a hot B subdwarf (T=18,700 K). The planet has surived and lies nearly at same orbital separation (roughly 1.6 AUs)

- Capella: a couple of white dwarfs orbiting around common orbital barycentre.

- Aldebaran: it's nicknamed "Bullwinkle" by Earthlings because of its stellar remnant, a neutron star. The closest pulsar to Solar System.

- Algol: evolving primary has "swallowed" secondary K2III-IV subgiant and interacts only with former tertiary (yet unevolved) component. Thus the Demon Star includes a F7Ib supergiant and a close-in A5-type main sequence star.

- Gacrux: another neutron star, with invisible companion, likely a white dwarf.

There would be more stars to list, but I would quit here.
Further thread bumps should display planets and other stuff.

It was funny to imagine how notable stars will appear in the future.
I am also developing stc and ssc files for fictional evolved systems.
It would be a curious extra as Celestia Add-on.

Feedback about models' feasibility is requested.

Thanks for the attention
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 23rd November 2009, 4:57 pm

I'm aware an "arid" text description of the stuff mentioned above can't render what I'm talking about in appreciable way. Imagination needs some incentive.
So here some Celestia-made snapshots. I repeat: it's been funny to imagine how nearby bright stars may evolve in a near (alternative) future Laughing

1) - Sun / Dying Sun comparison



2) - Earth/Dystopia comparison




And Dystopia globe map





3) - The Howling Dogs - Sirius (left) and Procyon (right), bright K0II and S6III giant respectively.



4) - Procyon: as symbiotic binary.



5) - Pollux: subdwarf with planetary nebula and "survivor" planet.





6) - Capella: binary white dwarfs with (hypothetical) jovian planet.



7) - The Death Triangle: as seen from a planet orbiting Capella. The triangle is formed by Procyon, Sirius and Beta Hydri.




I hope you like it. Suggestions and critiques are welcome Wink
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by jbjerk on 23rd November 2009, 5:53 pm

Um, so what exactly happened to the earth? All life extinguished, of just most of it?

I don't know how important the appearance of the earth is, but you can still see the vegetation patterns, i.e. the darkest spots clearly show where jungle and conifer forests are/were, though once the forests died (especially if a long time had passed), the color would likely be lighter, more like the desert. Eventually most of the soil would get blow/washed off.


For possible interest: here's a project by an obsessive map-maker that shows the earth with 90% of the water removed.
http://www.worlddreambank.org/S/SIP.HTM
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 24th November 2009, 5:54 am

Interesting site, thanks for notification. A bit unlikely about lifeforms but nice. The project Gorgonbreath and I are developing talks about mutant mankind (different genera and species). To see more take a look at this forum thread on Speculative Biology:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/2498258/1/

About geomorphology I've come to similar conclusion just studying bathymetric maps available at GEBCO website.
Dessiccated basins should not look brighter because of deserts and dunes, but darker anyway. Because ocean floor is made of basalt rock that have very low albedo. For example Moon rocks are basalts and lunar albedo (notwithstanding it shines so bright in our skies) is around 0.15.
The vegetation you suppose to be jungle or coniferes are actually lichen prairie and arboreal musks forests.

Thanks for interest and suggestions, jbjerk Wink
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by jbjerk on 24th November 2009, 1:03 pm

Ok, so there is still some plant life on the old surface. It still seems weird that it appears in exactly the same places as it did on old earth.

Vastly shrinking the oceans would significantly change the weather patterns. Presumably a lichen prairie needs some moisture, or else it would grow across the sahara too. Anyway, there is water enough that i would expect some visible vegetation around the new ocean basins.

I've found this site very useful for roughing out climate and rainfall:
http://www.cix.co.uk/~morven/worldkit/climate.html


Also there is frequent mention of high pressure on that page you link to. I don't understand how that would come about. Surely whatever mechanism removed most of the ocean would also remove part of the atmosphere.

Even if you had exactly the same volume of atmosphere, i wouldn't expect the air pressure at your new sea level to be radically different in terms of human survivability. People can easily dive and live under 4X the sea level air pressure. The main issue with the pressure while diving is that your lungs don't have equal pressure, which wouldn't be a problem if you were breathing normally, and thus inside/outside pressure was equal.
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Lazarus on 24th November 2009, 7:24 pm

Well obviously handwaving away the various issues with nucleosynthesis and stability of isotopes you'd likely get if you tweaked the nuclear forces so that the internal reactions of stars get modified in that kind of way...

Taking a guess, the evolved Capella wouldn't look like the way you've depicted it. The stars are quite close together which should make for some interesting events when they expand further. Mass transfer, orbital evolution, etc. This is going to be a very tricky one to figure out!
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 25th November 2009, 5:34 am

I see. This is just one of several possibilities. Here we could have two unequal mass white dwarf remnants.
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 22nd December 2009, 11:21 am

Little thread bump. A concept composition. Dying Sun ("Moriensun") in advanced stage of subgiant-red giant transition.

Solar death is reflected in sunspots.

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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by ciceron on 22nd December 2009, 12:21 pm

Some ideas..
- Receding seas and oceans would leave a huge salt cover , brilliant white , very high albedo (i was recently near a marine salt explotation and it was blinding)

- As Earth lowers its status as habitable , so rises mars , at least for a brief (geological) time. Green Mars?

- Sirius A leaving main secuence would lead to a rejuvenation of Sirus B , or , at least , some kind of CV system.

- To achieve shorter stellar life , something has been done to nuclear forces or gravity. Doing something to nuclear forces would have very ugly effects to biology , so i suppose you have to tweak gravity , maybe a change to the curvature of space? That would reflect seriusly on the structure of stellar system , specially on multiple star systems and/or stars with planets, not to mention the effects of tides. Case in point , what happens to Earth-moon system?
And , of course , what happens to the rate of stellar birth? are the stars diying at double rate but are being born at 4x times our rate? is the universe expanding or has begun a contraction already ?

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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 22nd December 2009, 1:24 pm

OMG! Too much questions!

I try to give answers:

- I assume albedo being mostly determined by dried ocean floors. Basalt rocks yield very low one. Salt waste contribution could be as intense as that of current ice caps on our Earth. I think

- Indeed, humans have emigrated to Mars and somebody elsewhere like Epsilon Eridani.

- Sirius should not have yet this kind of interaction, yet. On the other hand Procyon should.

- I have not considered this side because all this speculative work involves a science fiction, not a scientific work, of course.
In order to make Sun die at actual time, I should have had imagined (or better created a model for the original artist) a 10 billion years old Mankind for the story and that would have been really difficult work.


As I am I add this other concept art: freshly dead star, i.e a blood-drippin' white dwarf. Intense, uh?

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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Stalker on 22nd December 2009, 1:52 pm

White dwarf with spots???
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Sirius_Alpha on 22nd December 2009, 1:59 pm

Why not? White dwarfs can have magnetic fields too.
But then again... I don't understand solar physics as much as I'd like.

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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 22nd December 2009, 2:15 pm

White dwarf with spots???

White dwarfs of cataclysmic variables and dwarf novas use to have spots, indeed.

Sirius_Alpha wrote:Why not? White dwarfs can have magnetic fields too.
But then again... I don't understand solar physics as much as I'd like.

Neither I do. I'm fond of extrasolar planets and basic astrophysics.

Just the necessary to NOT say Aldebaran or Vega can have Earth-like planets and civilizations threatening the Earth

I think it is enough.

We have other experts here to make professional points about
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by ciceron on 22nd December 2009, 2:56 pm

I would love to see a rendition of the Castor system on that universe .. All kind of weird things going on a system like that on your dystopia Wink

The last render , the white dwarf would not have any red lingering on his surface nor nowhere near it. Any gas within 1 au of the surface would be inmersed in hard radiation and glow in white-bluish ligth. A red cocoon would be a nice backdrop or even a red halo several AU beyond the star.

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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 22nd December 2009, 3:52 pm

ciceron wrote:I would love to see a rendition of the Castor system on that universe .. All kind of weird things going on a system like that on your dystopia Wink

It would be a nice idea. In our Universe their lifetime should last roughly 1 Gyr or few more. If my calculations are right.
Their age is 200 million years, even with half their lifetime I don't think they would look evolved after all.
However a system with two red giants in eccentric orbits and a dim pair of eclipsing M-dwarfs sounds intriguing.

The last render, the white dwarf would not have any red lingering on his surface nor nowhere near it. Any gas within 1 au of the surface would be inmersed in hard radiation and glow in white-bluish ligth. A red cocoon would be a nice backdrop or even a red halo several AU beyond the star.

I said it is an artistic concept, not a scientific one. It should recall a violent death...
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Re: Dystopia Universe - A Collab

Post by Edasich on 14th May 2010, 5:21 pm

Little thread bump. Comparison between our Universe Solar System and Dystopia one. Mercury and Venus way much hotter of course, Venus hothouse effect increases. Earth experiences venusian metamorphosis by degree and Mars looks moist.





Dystopia Earth: with clouds and cloudless. Notice in the former great amounts of water vapour increasing greenhouse effect.
Snapshots refers to former Pacifica area, now an arid waste with little oceanic remnant ("Pazeefeeka planum" as in IAU nomenclature).

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